builder@groups.io | PL encode when COS active (2024)

scomind@aol.com

Hi Todd,

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

The S-COM 7K has had that capability for, oh, 14 years now.

It's not a logic output (although you can certainly do it that way with macros). It's an internal audio gate with the input and output brought out to one of the rear connectors. You hook the encoder to the input pin and drive the transmitter from the output pin.

I'm not suggestinga 7K foryour application --it has 2-1/2 ports instead of four. Just wanted to let you know this problem has been addressed before.

If it's because no one has asked for this feature
........I'M ASKING NOW :)

Our new designs will support encode on all ports.

73,

Bob

Bob Schmid, WA9FBO
S-COM, LLC
970-416-6505 voice
970-419-3222 fax
bob_schmid@...

Guys:

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

They all incorporate logic for PL input (COS, COS+PL, or
PL by itself), but having a choice of when the encoder is
active would be a real blessing. Myself, I only TX the PL
when there is a COS/PL active input.

I'm still undecided whether my next controller will be
a RC210 or an RLC-4 and these are the units I've done
the research on (reading each manual). If I've missed
this, let me know.

On the current setup here with two repeaters, I use an
external circuit consisting of an "OR" gate (to monitor
both repeaters COS) feeding a FET which switches a relay
for each PL encoder. This way it doesn't matter which
repeater comes active, BOTH will TX PL only when either
is active.

Trying to do this with a 3 or 4 port controller is easily
doable externally, but I just can't understand why a
controller which has more computing power than my laptop
doesn't have this incorporated.

If it's because no one has asked for this feature
........I'M ASKING NOW :)

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Ken Arck

At 10:17 AM 6/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Guys:

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

<---Actually, our RC210 does exactly this. Not only is there a encoder control line (1 for each of its 3 ports) but you have great flexibility in how it functions. You can have it track COS or have it turn off based on a timer, which is triggered by either COS closure or the completion of courtesy tone.

Thanks for the opportunity to offer a shameless plug of OUR products!

Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

scomind@aol.com

Hi Tedd,

>It's not a logic output (although you can certainly do it that way with
>macros). It's an internal audio gate with the input and output brought out to one
>of the rear connectors. You hook the encoder to the input pin and drive the
>transmitter from the output pin.

So you are actually gating the PL tone, instead of
switching the PL unit on or off? I never thought of
that method.

Yes, exactly. ATS-32 could be used for bothdecode and encode, with the encode tonegoing through a gate in the 7K for on/off control.

'Way back when,a customer suggested a mode in whichthe CTCSS encoder turns on for a little whilewhen the repeater is first keyed. That way, decode-equipped listeners would hear the beginning of a QSO (presumably with call signs) so they'd know who's on without having to listen to the whole QSO. I doubt many customers use the mode, but it's still there. Having the ability to simply gate any external encoder made that sort of thing simple to implement.

Thanks for your help Bob. Let me know when the
new controllers are available. Anything for 4
or more ports on the design table????

Yes! :-)

73,

Bob, WA9FBO

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:23:17 -0700, Ken Arck wrote:

Actually, our RC210 does exactly this.

Can you tell me where it is mentioned in the manual
Ken? I've gone through all three of the downloadable
manuals over the last few days and don't remember
seeing anything mentioned about it.

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Gregg Lengling

But they do....if you think about it. Just use a control output that is
triggered by a macro or some such thing. Most controllers allow you to
create an output on their control lines for various things, just because
they don't say CTCSS encode control line doesn't mean it isn't there.

Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired
Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org
K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57
Member: ARRL, RSGB, RCA, WERA and ORC

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:27:48 -0500, Gregg Lengling wrote:

But they do....if you think about it. Just use a control output that is
triggered by a macro or some such thing. Most controllers allow you to
create an output on their control lines for various things, just because
they don't say CTCSS encode control line doesn't mean it isn't there.

Good point Gregg. As Ken mentioned, his RC210 has this feature.
I found it on page 18 of his manual just now. It's labeled "CTCSS
Encode Dropout Timer", and I must have overlooked it because
I saw the word TIMER. If it was worded "CTCSS encode control", I
would have read it :)

As I'm still undecided upon the controller, does anyone
know if the RLC-4 has the same feature WITHOUT using a
macro?

Thanks guys.

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Ken Arck

At 10:27 AM 6/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Can you tell me where it is mentioned in the manual
Ken? I've gone through all three of the downloadable
manuals over the last few days and don't remember
seeing anything mentioned about it.

<---http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/rc210/rc2104_26manual.pdf

Page 18:

If you have connected the CTCSS encode control line to an external encoder, you can program this parameter to select how long encoded CTCSS will continue to be transmitted after the receiver COS closure or Courtesy Tone completion. The range is 0 to 25.5 seconds.

*1007x where "x" is the amount of time in 1/10 seconds CTCSS should continue to be sent after COS closure or Courtesy Tone completion. The range is 0 to 25.5 seconds.

Note: programming a 0 disables the timer and the CTCSS encode line will "turn off" immediately upon COS closure. If programmed to 254, CTCSS encode will never occur. If programmed to 255, CTCSS encode will remain on at all times.

Note: See the command *1021 for selecting the CTCSS Encode polarity

Page 19:

CTCSS Encode Control Line Polarity

Each Port's CTCSS Encode Control Line may be programmed to be an active low or active open collector. In other words, you can program whether the Control Line should be pulled to ground or allowed to float when you want encoded by an external CTCSS encoder.

*1021xSelect Control Line polarity. If x = 1, then the output will float when active. If x = 0 then output will pull to ground when active.

Page 20:

CTCSS Encode Timer Start After COS or After Courtesy Tone

The CTCSS Encode timer may be selected to start on closure of COS or upon completion of Courtesy Tone. This allows for easy timing to end of hang time. For example, many system owners like to stop the CTCSS tone a few hundred milliseconds before the transmitter drops. This helps to eliminate sometimes annoying crashes as the user radio's squelch closes by allowing them to turn on their CTCSS decode function.

*2088x where x selects when to start the encode dropout timer.1 = After Courtesy Tone, 0 = After COS closure

CTCSS Encode During ID's

You may select to have the RC210 send CTCSS during ID's.

*2089x where x =1 to send CTCSS during IDs and 0 to not send CTCSS during IDs.

Hope this helps!

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:23:17 -0700, Ken Arck wrote:

you have great flexibility in how it functions

Forgot to ask Ken, does the PL encoder line become
active for ID's, or does it only follow the COS?
Hoping the latter....

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:38:44 -0700, Ken Arck wrote:

You may select to have the RC210 send CTCSS during ID's.

Cool.....just what the doctor asked for.

Big thanks!

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Ken Arck

At 10:40 AM 6/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Forgot to ask Ken, does the PL encoder line become
active for ID's, or does it only follow the COS?
Hoping the latter....

<---As I just posted, you have full control of this (on a port-by-port basis).

Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

Ken Arck

At 10:41 AM 6/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Cool.....just what the doctor asked for.

Big thanks!

<---We aim to please! :-)

Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

Chuck Kelsey

My RLC-4 does PL encode on "active COR from any port." I just use one of the
outputs from the controller to switch the encoder on and off.

Chuck
WB2EDV

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:52:51 -0400, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

My RLC-4 does PL encode on "active COR from any port."

I must have been in stupid mode when I read the
manual Chuck. Any idea where it is in the manual?

I just use one of the
outputs from the controller to switch the encoder on and off.

I never have a reason to turn the encoder off, so
I guess I can skip this step. Also, when you have the RLC-4
the COR mode, does it transmit PL during any ID's?

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:55:26 EDT, scomind@... wrote:

Bob,

The S-COM 7K has had that capability for, oh, 14 years now.

Sure, one of the many controllers I've never had :)

It's not a logic output (although you can certainly do it that way with
macros). It's an internal audio gate with the input and output brought out to one
of the rear connectors. You hook the encoder to the input pin and drive the
transmitter from the output pin.

So you are actually gating the PL tone, instead of
switching the PL unit on or off? I never thought of
that method. As all my links use the same PL, injecting
the output of a tone generator to say, 4 gates, and
letting the gates control it sounds intriguing. Saves
buying 3 more encoders :)

I'm not suggesting a 7K for your application -- it has 2-1/2 ports instead of
four. Just wanted to let you know this problem has been addressed before.

Thanks. I knew someone must have thought of this before.

Our new designs will support encode on all ports.

Thanks for your help Bob. Let me know when the
new controllers are available. Anything for 4
or more ports on the design table????

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Jim B.

scomind@... wrote:

Hi Todd,

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

The S-COM 7K has had that capability for, oh, 14 years now.
It's not a logic output (although you can certainly do it that way with macros). It's an internal audio gate with the input and output brought out to one of the rear connectors. You hook the encoder to the input pin and drive the transmitter from the output pin.

The reason for doing it that way is that very few tone encoders have a way to 'turn the tone on and off'. Generally to get an encoder to stop sending tone, you have to kill the power to it. If your using an encode/decode board, obviously it will stop decoding. The SS-32 and TS-32 will work that way, but the -64's have a PTT input, used for reverse burst gating, so that would be the way to go.
On two of the first repeaters I put together, I used the old Com-Spec ME-3 encoder, with the ground lead tied to an open collector output that went to ground on COS. The first was a <shudder> Spectrum with their COS and control boards. It had extra COS outputs for driving other things. The other was a Micor with an RC-850. I hooked the ME-3 ground to the remote base PTT output and turned the RB on in all modes. Worked sweet, as the way it was setup, it also turned on the encoder for autopatches and a few other msgs like the mail present msg, etc.

--
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL

Bob Dengler

At 6/30/2004 07:17 AM, you wrote:

Guys:

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

They all incorporate logic for PL input (COS, COS+PL, or
PL by itself), but having a choice of when the encoder is
active would be a real blessing. Myself, I only TX the PL
when there is a COS/PL active input.

I'm still undecided whether my next controller will be
a RC210 or an RLC-4 and these are the units I've done
the research on (reading each manual). If I've missed
this, let me know.

One of the digital outputs on the RLC4 can be configured to "follow" receiver activity by the use of event triggers. Use the "any connected RX active x" event to turn the output on & the "all connected RX inactive x" event to turn it off. There are several other event triggers available such as PL active/inactive, COS active/inactive & port x active/inactive (not affected by link status), so I think you can do what you want with the RLC4.

Bob NO6B

Mike WA6ILQ

At 08:55 AM 6/30/04, you wrote:

Hi Todd,

After doing some research on my next controller,I'm

still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers

incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS)ENCODER.

The S-COM 7K has had that capability for, oh, 14 years now.

It's not a logic output (although you can certainly do it that way withmacros).

Actually with the 2.04 firmware, it is.

It's an internal audio gate withthe input and output brought out to one of the rear connectors. You hookthe encoder to the input pin and drive the transmitter from the outputpin.

I'm not suggesting a 7K for your application -- it has 2-1/2 portsinstead of four.

Using the Cat automation expander it would be doable.

Just wanted to let you know thisproblem has been addressed before.

If it's because no one has asked for thisfeature

........I'M ASKING NOW :)

Our new designs will support encode on all ports.

73,
Bob


Bob Schmid, WA9FBO
S-COM, LLC
970-416-6505 voice
970-419-3222 fax
bob_schmid@...

Hi Tedd, I used a TS64 on one of our repeaters connected the COS to
the PTT in. The folks that want to hear everything don't use CTCSS
decode on their radio while thoes that wan't to hear only valid
users turn it on. Sence Id is only required to be transmitted, it is
done with out CTCSS encoded. Our users Love it.
73 All
Coy

--- In Repeater-Builder@..., "Tedd Doda" <lazer@s...>
wrote:

Guys:

After doing some research on my next controller, I'm
still puzzled why none of the controller manufacturers
incorporate a logic output to control a PL(CTCSS) ENCODER.

They all incorporate logic for PL input (COS, COS+PL, or
PL by itself), but having a choice of when the encoder is
active would be a real blessing. Myself, I only TX the PL
when there is a COS/PL active input.

I'm still undecided whether my next controller will be
a RC210 or an RLC-4 and these are the units I've done
the research on (reading each manual). If I've missed
this, let me know.

On the current setup here with two repeaters, I use an
external circuit consisting of an "OR" gate (to monitor
both repeaters COS) feeding a FET which switches a relay
for each PL encoder. This way it doesn't matter which
repeater comes active, BOTH will TX PL only when either
is active.

Trying to do this with a 3 or 4 port controller is easily
doable externally, but I just can't understand why a
controller which has more computing power than my laptop
doesn't have this incorporated.

If it's because no one has asked for this feature
........I'M ASKING NOW :)

Tedd Doda, VE3TJD

Lazer Audio and Electronics
Baden, Ontario, Canada

Richard

I'm pretty sure the RLC-4 supports the I/O board, so you could use an output
from it to control your PL encoder, then write a macro to turn the output on
and off using whatever event trigger you want.

Richard, N7TGB